{"id":638,"date":"2014-06-20T20:12:23","date_gmt":"2014-06-20T20:12:23","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/clickandtreat.com\/wordpress\/?p=638"},"modified":"2014-11-06T01:55:13","modified_gmt":"2014-11-06T01:55:13","slug":"the-difference-between-dog-poop-and-a-bagel","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/clickandtreat.com\/wordpress\/?p=638","title":{"rendered":"The Difference Between Dog Poop and a Bagel:"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright\" src=\"http:\/\/clickandtreat.com\/wordpress\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/06\/062014_2012_TheDifferen2.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"105\" height=\"89\" align=\"right\" \/><\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"http:\/\/clickandtreat.com\/wordpress\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/06\/062014_2012_TheDifferen3.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"152\" height=\"102\" align=\"left\" \/><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt;\">It may surprise you to know that <em>behavior modification<\/em> isn&#8217;t the same thing as &#8220;learning&#8221; in the sense used by scientists and modern dog trainers. If this sounds like splitting hairs, it&#8217;s not. It is a significant point that leads people down the garden path. I&#8217;ll give you an example.<br \/>\n<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt;\"><strong>Example 1: &#8220;Punishment does not teach an animal what to do.&#8221;<br \/>\n<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><!--more--><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt;\">The above statement is a widely expressed belief of behavioral scientists and modern, scientific dog trainers. This would be a very simple truth if it was taken literally. Almost as simple as saying that lead doesn&#8217;t float on water. However, the people who say this add a subjective value judgment that makes the statement false. To see the error in their conclusions we need to look at what they mean by the words &#8220;teach&#8221; and &#8220;learn&#8221; and how it is influenced by a bias that comes from behavioral science. B.F. Skinner, the person most responsible for the underlying principles of &#8220;learning theory&#8221; believed that one could only have a science of behavior by examining a cumulative record of behavior over time. To accomplish this he created experiments that counted how often a rat pressed a lever or a pigeon pecked a lighted key. He picked rats and pigeons because they were small and cheap to sustain, not because they were the best animals to gain insight into behavior. The experiments were equally chosen to match his desire for data rather than some significant advantage in understanding fundamental principles of behavior. What the experimental process did was generate data that could b<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright wp-image-635 size-full\" src=\"http:\/\/clickandtreat.com\/wordpress\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/06\/062014_2012_TheDifferen1.gif\" alt=\"062014_2012_TheDifferen1.gif\" width=\"207\" height=\"198\" \/>e analyzed in the form of charts and graphs like the one on the right. You can encapsulate Skinner&#8217;s mantra as no data, no charts, no graphs, no science. This works if you are studying ways of increasing behavior. The problem started when Skinner looked at punishment. Punishment stops behavior. Now we have a serious road-block and an explanation of why behavioral scientists have a unique bias about how to view a roughly symmetrical dual phenomenon \u2013 reinforcement <span style=\"text-decoration: underline;\">and<\/span> punishment.<br \/>\n<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt;\">Let&#8217;s take a moment and see how the bias in favor of collecting numbers has influenced our language and our perception. To <em>teach<\/em> assumes that someone is going to learn. Therefore the individual must be in <strong>(X)<\/strong> state when the teaching starts and arrive at the state of <strong>(X+Y)<\/strong> when the teaching stops. We will call that <strong>Dog A, Dog A = (X+Y) <\/strong>a\u00a0 dog with some addition to it&#8217;s repertoire. (The assumption in this is that the process of learning is additive rather than &#8220;different.&#8221; )This has been integral in the minds of behavioral psychologists for so long that they are incapable of understanding any other perspective. However the term &#8220;behavior modification&#8221; means a change in the existing state of an organism&#8217;s repertoire. It does not specific additive, merely different which would also imply subtractive. So, to Skinner, the following is not an example of &#8220;learning&#8221; but by any definition it is certainly behavior modification. Take a dog and select an arbitrary behavior (<strong>Behavior X<\/strong>) to inhibit. We are going to call this experimental animal\u00a0<strong>Dog B<\/strong> prior to creating the inhibition and <strong>Dog C<\/strong> after. We can see that <strong>Dog A<\/strong> and <strong>Dog B<\/strong> are already dissimilar. One had a behavior added to its repertoire and the other is in the same state <strong>Dog A<\/strong> was before we added a behavior. <strong>Dog B<\/strong> has an existing repertoire that encompasses many behaviors both instinctive and learned. We will call it&#8217;s original repertoire <strong>(R)<\/strong>. If we inhibit <strong>Behavior X, Dog B <\/strong>changes to <strong>(R-X) <\/strong>which we will create <strong>Dog C<\/strong>. This isn&#8217;t a rare thing. It is so common we have many terms for this form of behavior modification, usually represented by the prefix, &#8220;ex&#8221;. Someone can be an ex-smoker, ex-gambler, ex-drinker or ex-fighter. They once included those things in their life and not they don&#8217;t. To Skinner, the process whereby someone becomes and &#8220;ex-anything&#8221; is not learning \u2013 but it is certainly behavior modification. Example: <strong>Dog D<\/strong> jumps on people. The behavior is eliminated from his repertoire through a punishment procedure and he becomes <strong>Dog E<\/strong> &#8211; an ex-jumper. This is not considered learning even though there is a clear difference between <strong>Dog D<\/strong> and <strong>Dog E<\/strong>. We can examine 100 dogs and classify them as being with or without a specific behavior. Some are <strong>Dog D<\/strong> and some are <strong>Dog E<\/strong>. Not only is there nothing odd about this, it is a pretty important aspect of the human-dog relationship. Consider how many times someone asks, &#8220;Does your dog bite?&#8221; If dogs that bite are <strong>Dog F<\/strong> types and dogs that don&#8217;t bite after a punishment procedure are <strong>Dog G<\/strong> type we have a significant reason to know which is which. If ignoring subtractive relationships sounds goofy, here&#8217;s the paper trail that explains where this &#8220;distinction without a difference&#8221; comes from.<br \/>\n<\/span><\/p>\n<p><strong>The Paper Trail:<\/strong><br \/>\n<span style=\"font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt;\">Here is a quote by Dr. Murray Sidman \u2013 acolyte and colleague of B.F. Skinner in his book Coercion and Its Fallout. Sidman is often quoted by modern dog trainers as an expert on the topic of punishment.<br \/>\n<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt;\">&#8220;<em>But just punishing the animal for doing something else does not teach it to sit. At most, punishment only teaches it what not to do.&#8221;<br \/>\n<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt;\">To anyone using simple logic Sidman&#8217;s comment is bizarre. Punishing a dog is intended to stop a specific behavior. We want that <strong>(R-X)<\/strong> state.\u00a0 It is not supposed to teach a dog to sit or do anything else. The elimination of one behavior and the creation of another are two separate processes. If the objectionable behavior is jumping up on people, I can punish the dog for jumping up as a discrete procedure. Just like touching a hot stove doesn&#8217;t require that you also learn algebra as you learn to not touch hot stoves. If I at some point I teach the dog to &#8220;sit&#8221; then &#8220;sit&#8221; is a part of the dog&#8217;s repertoire along with &#8220;don&#8217;t jump on people&#8221; and a thousand other things like knowing where and when the food bowl is full. Meaning there is no dog that jumps on people that does not already have other behaviors in its repertoire. If jumping up is blocked, the dog accepts the new rule and adapts with some other behavior or with no behavior at all.Sometimes all that is necessary to adapt is to stop doing a single behavior, now. No other modification of the repertoire is needed. That is as true in nature as it is in captivity.<br \/>\n<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt;\">The main concept is that if at any point I decide to stop the jumping behavior the process is independent of any other behavior. Once punished the dog can do something else it already knows how to do or nothing at all &#8211; because nothing at all is the purpose of punishment. If the dog pivots and sits instead of jumping up fine. If not, it doesn&#8217;t matter. It can wander away, stand still, lie down or many other behaviors it already knows. The idea that a punished behavior is somehow linked to learning another behavior is a non sequitur.\u00a0 The two things are not related \u2013 until you read into it the bias of all behavior analysts. To them, increasing behavior is the only kind of behavior modification acknowledged as valuable. Subtracting something is not considered at all. In Sidman&#8217;s quote you see their solution to problems based on bias. They must teach a new behavior to prevent an existing problem &#8211; an (X+Y) solution. Even though the two processes, reinforcement and punishment,\u00a0 are roughly symmetrical opposites both are valued by their ability to increase behavior. (Except that punishment cannot subtract behavior) By the definition of those who created &#8220;learning theory&#8221; this is a contradiction. Reinforcement increases behavior and punishment decreases or stops behavior.<br \/>\n<\/span><\/p>\n<p>The problem is that this perspective has trickled down to academics in related fields, dog trainers and then became &#8220;fact&#8221; to the general public. Here are some quotes that display the echoes of Skinner, Sidman and the orthodoxy of modern behavior analysis. Note: I cite these people because they make money giving advice to dog owners. They are no more immune from criticism than Dr. Phil or anyone else who publicly claims to have and pronounces &#8220;expert knowledge.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ian Dunbar:<\/strong> Veterinarian and PhD in dog ethology (his PhD is not in behavior analysis)<br \/>\n<em>\u201cAny punishment for inappropriate behavior is an obvious advertisement of insufficient, or ineffective training. You have yet to effectively teach your dog to want to do what you want it to do.\u201d<\/em><br \/>\n<strong>Victoria Stilwell:<\/strong> Popular television trainer<br \/>\n<em>\u201cModern behavioral science has proven that forceful handling such as physical punishment, leash yanking, or making a dog submit by rolling it on its back is psychologically damaging for the dog and has potentially dangerous consequences for owners. Instead, the most successful modern training theories suggest that reinforcing good behavior with rewards while using constructive discipline is much more successful.\u201d<\/em><br \/>\n<strong>The American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior:<\/strong> (An association of veterinarians, primarily board certified behaviorists.)<br \/>\n<em>\u201cAVSAB recommends that training should focus on reinforcing desired behaviors, removing the reinforcer for inappropriate behaviors, and ad\u00acdressing the emotional state and environmental conditions driving the undesirable behavior. This approach promotes a better understanding of the pet\u2019s behavior and better awareness of how humans may have inadvertently contrib\u00acuted to the development of the undesirable behavior. Punishment should only be used when the above approach has failed despite an adequate effort as part of a larger training or behavior modification program that incorpo\u00acrates reinforcement of appropriate behaviors and works to change the underlying cause of the problem behavior. \u201c<\/em><br \/>\n<strong>Pat Miller<\/strong>: Popular \u201cPositive\u201d Dog Trainer<br \/>\n<em>\u201cIt (punishment) doesn\u2019t teach the dog what <strong>to<\/strong> do.\u201d<\/em> (emphasis hers)<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr Susan Freidman PhD<\/strong> behavior analyst:<br \/>\n&#8220;Punishment doesn\u2019t teach learners what <em>to do <\/em>instead of the problem behavior<em>.<\/em>&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>Consider for a second that two learned, well-respected behavior analysts, a veterinarian with a PhD in ethology, a scientific organization of academically trained veterinary behaviorists and two popular \u201cpositive\u201d dog trainers are unaware that the purpose of punishment is to stop a behavior from occurring. They all assume that problem behaviors are the result of not teaching something else. OK, I&#8217;ll bite. Australian Cattle Dogs were bred to bite the heels of cows. That&#8217;s why they are called &#8216;heelers&#8217;. Wh<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright wp-image-749 size-medium\" src=\"http:\/\/clickandtreat.com\/wordpress\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/06\/HeelerHeeling-300x240.jpg\" alt=\"HeelerHeeling\" width=\"300\" height=\"240\" srcset=\"https:\/\/clickandtreat.com\/wordpress\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/06\/HeelerHeeling-300x240.jpg 300w, https:\/\/clickandtreat.com\/wordpress\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/06\/HeelerHeeling-375x300.jpg 375w, https:\/\/clickandtreat.com\/wordpress\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/06\/HeelerHeeling.jpg 500w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/>at would one teach in advance that would make that instinctive behavior not happen? Sit? OK, let&#8217;s try it. Take a well-bred cattle dog and show it some cows. Now say &#8220;sit&#8221; and watch\u00a0 as the dust kicks up in your face from a dog going lickety-split after a bunch of cows. You can&#8217;t teach a behavior that will remove this behavior from the dog&#8217;s repertoire. That is because the dog has a genetic obsession with chasing moving objects and then biting the critter&#8217;s foot to drive it. You didn&#8217;t create the heeling behavior. It was there when the animal was born in every cell of its body. It woke up one day when conditions were right. It&#8217;s not going away by teaching something else. This is true for all dogs bred for a behavioral purpose &#8211; pointers, retrievers, hunting hounds and other types of herders. This is not known to behavioral scientists.<\/p>\n<p>Apparently if I do not want my cattle dog to chase my cats I must teach it to do other things so powerfully that it overrides 150 years of breeding. That begs the question, &#8220;with what&#8221;? What positive reinforcer is more powerful to a cattle dog than doing what it was bred to do? The answer is none. If you doubt this, do the one thing that learned scientists are supposed to do but behavioral scientists never do &#8211; try it and report your findings. Get a half dozen Blue Heelers and teach them to sit instead of chasing cows. Then tell me the results and what specific things you did to accomplish the improbable. Now the other shoe drops. Australian Cattle Dogs are never allowed to &#8216;heel&#8217; horses with riders. That behavior is punished early in their working career for obvious reasons &#8211; drovers ride horses. Apparently savvy Australian drovers teaching their dogs to &#8216;not heel&#8217; horses with riders isn&#8217;t an example of &#8220;learning&#8221;, according to Skinner, and is proof of inadequate training, according to Dunbar.<\/p>\n<p>This real-life example leads to the next problem for behavioral scientists and modern trainers\u00a0 &#8211; positive reinforcement cannot block a behavior from occurring specifically because it does not subtract anything from the dog&#8217;s repertoire. This is supposed to be the idea &#8211; never remove something, only add behaviors. That doesn&#8217;t work. No matter how scientifically I work to reinforce the absence of a behavior, it&#8217;s still there. It doesn&#8217;t go away simply because some other behavior is reinforced. If that were true, you would forget old behaviors as you learned new ones. EG: No one would be able to play multiple musical instruments because as you learn piano you would forget how to play violin.<\/p>\n<p>The important thing to glean here is that we live in a sea of behavior. Understanding fundamental principles is as simple as opening your eyes. When people say things that are intended to sway your opinion the best action is to reduce the information to basic principles. For instance, here are some examples of <span style=\"font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt;\">rephrasing Sidman&#8217;s logic applied to other aspects of life.<br \/>\n<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt;\"><em>But just hitting the brakes does not cause your car to go anywhere. At most, hitting the brakes only causes the car to stop.<br \/>\n<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt;\"><em>But just turning off the burner on your stove does not cook anything. At most, removing the heat merely causes the stove to not cook.<br \/>\n<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt;\"><em>But just hanging up the phone doesn&#8217;t allow you to talk to anyone&#8230;<br \/>\n<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt;\"><em>But just falling from the sky doesn&#8217;t teach you to walk upright&#8230;<br \/>\n<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n<p><em>If you are burned by a stove it is only because you didn&#8217;t correctly teach yourself how to use pot holders.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt;\">The serious problem in modern training is the avid acceptance of concepts that are at their root, false. Some of these things can only be differentiated if you go back to the foundation. Examining the end statement may actually appear to be splitting hairs while actually describing a deep divide. These differences are significant in the long run. For instance, at first glance you might thing these two things are identical. Trust me, only one of them is edible in the traditional sense. (We shall call your introduction to the stuff on the left <strong>P<\/strong>. The stuff on the right is <strong>PR<\/strong>) If you bite both and one teaches you to never eat it again, is that an example of learning?<br \/>\n<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt;\">It is every trainer&#8217;s responsibility to know the difference between a pile of poop and a pretzel. Quoting someone who doesn&#8217;t know the difference just because they have a PhD doesn&#8217;t help \u2013 it&#8217;s still poop. Learning the fundamental truths about behavior is the key to subtracting the pile on the left from the pile on the right &#8211; which would be <strong>(PR-P=Yummy)<\/strong> No additive combination comes up with an acceptable outcome because the dog poop never goes away, even after you eat the pretzel. That would be a very good thing to learn.<br \/>\n<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>&nbsp; &nbsp; It may surprise you to know that behavior modification isn&#8217;t the same thing as &#8220;learning&#8221; in the sense used by scientists and modern dog trainers. If this sounds like splitting hairs, it&#8217;s not. It is a significant point that leads people down the garden path. I&#8217;ll give you an example. Example 1: &#8220;Punishment does not teach an animal what to do.&#8221;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_s2mail":"yes","footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-638","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/clickandtreat.com\/wordpress\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/638","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/clickandtreat.com\/wordpress\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/clickandtreat.com\/wordpress\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/clickandtreat.com\/wordpress\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/clickandtreat.com\/wordpress\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=638"}],"version-history":[{"count":28,"href":"https:\/\/clickandtreat.com\/wordpress\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/638\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":913,"href":"https:\/\/clickandtreat.com\/wordpress\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/638\/revisions\/913"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/clickandtreat.com\/wordpress\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=638"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/clickandtreat.com\/wordpress\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=638"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/clickandtreat.com\/wordpress\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=638"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}